Unveiling the World of Audio Gaming: A Conversation with Shelby Craig

Episode 27

In this insightful episode of the Through Our Eyes podcast, hosts Luisa and Brianna are joined by special guest Shelby Craig to explore the world of accessible gaming. Together, they delve into the challenges and triumphs of navigating video games for individuals with visual impairments. Shelby shares her experiences and expertise, shedding light on the strategies and tools she utilizes to enjoy a variety of games, from World of Warcraft to flight simulators. The conversation touches on the importance of accessibility in gaming, advocating for developers to prioritize inclusive design. Through personal anecdotes and practical insights, this episode illuminates the evolving landscape of accessible gaming and the transformative impact it has on individuals and communities.

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• Transcript

  Luisa Recchia (00:02):

  Welcome everyone to another captivating episode of Through Our Eyes Podcast, brought to you by the Pediatric Retinal Research Foundation. I'm your host, Luisa Recchia, and I'm joined by my fantastic colleague and co-host Breyanna Willitt. In each episode, we explore the inspiring stories, innovative breakthroughs, and the unwavering spirit of individuals and families who face the challenges of retinal diseases head on. We'll dive into the world of research, cutting edge technologies and the compassionate hearts of the people who make it all possible. But before we embark on today's compelling adventure, let's take a moment to thank our incredible sponsors at the Pediatric Retinal Research Foundation. They are the driving force behind our mission to spread awareness, foster hope, and shed light on the invaluable work happening in the field of pediatric retinal research. Together we strive to make a brighter, clearer future for children and families affected by retinal diseases. Today we welcome back an extraordinary guest, Shelby Craig. So get ready for a delightful session as Breyanna and Shelby share a mix of stories, insights, and more. Without further ado, let's begin.

  Breyanna Willitt (01:15):

  First of all, I just wanna say welcome Shelby. We've missed you here on the podcast. You know, I'm very happy that you were able to join us today. So today I thought that we could do something a little different and talk about video games. I know that's something that you know, you're very passionate about. I know you have your YouTube channel and everything where you focus on gaming. So the way you game is a lot different than myself. Obviously, I have some remaining usable vision left and I've seen a couple of your videos on YouTube and stuff, and you game very differently than me <laugh>. So I guess, how do you go about finding games that are super accessible?

  Shelby Craig (01:58):

  So, as far as coming across accessible games, the thing that a lot of people don't realize is that the market for audio gaming is actually very, very, very small compared to the majority. The fact is that a lot of people don't really have to worry about things like accessibility challenges and overcoming disabilities and how how certain disabilities would affect people's playing experience, gaming and experiences. So it's, it's actually really hard to come across some games that are considered accessible by all. And even though developers are becoming brilliant at putting a lot of accessibility features into mainstream gaming, there's just so much to think about, uh, when considering what makes a game accessible because there truly is a difference between accessibility and playability. That's what a lot of developers don't realize. I mean, you could come across games that are unintentionally accessible to an astonishing degree, which is a always amazing to see a rare gem like that.

  Shelby Craig (03:13):

  But on the flip side, you have developers who claim to have their accessible games in medians that all people with disabilities can play. But when you pull up the game and expect to be able to play it, you actually can't because this one little thing has actually changed the entire perspective. Uh, as far as the accessibility of the game is concerned, there are a lot that said, there are a lot of resources out there. There is a website called audio games.net where you can find a lot of accessible games that span across a wide range of genres. Ironically, the genre that has the least amount of games where the blind is concerned is horror, which you would think that there would be more just because of the whole psychological aspect of, you know, being blind trying to find your way through the dark. But that's actually not the case.

  Shelby Craig (04:10):

  There's actually not a whole lot of that stuff. But there are other games that have, and it's worth noting also that different types of games have different mechanics. For example, I play what are called multi-user dungeons. And I know what a lot of people out there are thinking, oh, so you're like a d and d role playing type person. And while I love d and d, multi-user dungeons can actually span across a wide variety of themes. Some are science fiction themed, some are fantasy based. It really just depends on the multi-user dungeon that playing. Other games that would be considered accessible would be games like flying Simulators. Some of those games are accessible, but not a whole lot. There is only one flight, there's only one, one or two flight sims for the blind. And a lot of times when it comes to finding games that are playable, there are times when other methods have to be implemented in order to be able to play those. Um, an example is when you're trying to read the menu for a specific game, there are times when you have to use screen recognition on the computer in order to see, oh, okay, I'm on the main menu. Okay, well which option do I need to click on? What happens when I press this button? So there's a lot of different factors to consider when talking about accessibility versus playability.

  Breyanna Willitt (05:47):

  It's so funny that you mentioned Dungeons and Dragons. 'cause I'm actually wearing a Dungeons and Dragon sweatshirt.

  Shelby Craig (05:52):

  Oh my gosh, that's amazing. My, a few of my coworkers and I, are actually gonna start up a Dungeons and Dragons group, so I'm super excited about that.

  Breyanna Willitt (06:00):

  I'm so jealous. So you play a lot, you play <inaudible> games, right?

  Shelby Craig (06:05):

  Right. I do play some Xbox games as well, and although I do play iPhone and iPad games, those are typically more difficult to stream. That's why when you go to my YouTube, the majority of the games that you will see are Xbox and computer based.

  Breyanna Willitt (06:23):

  Interesting. So I saw you play World of Warcraft, right? Yep. That's, is that one of the games? So I noticed that for things like Quest markers and stuff like that, that there's different audio like cues and stuff like that. Yes. So I guess how do you manage, especially in something so complex as, wow, so I guess how do you manage to navigate your way?

  Shelby Craig (06:47):

  So the, so the, the mechanics of World of Warcraft, even though they are complex, a lot of the mechanics of the game are, they can be set to be done through the keyboard. So if you configure the game to what there, the, the keyboard commands that we use, everything is done through what we call key bines. And what that means is you can actually program the keys on your keyboard to perform a specific function when they're pressed. So arrow key. So the up arrow key could move you forward, down the arrow keys could help you turn and move around and pressing certain keys would make you cast different spells toward enemies. And the other thing that a lot of people don't realize when it comes to World of Warcraft is that everything is actually stereo based. So if you wear a pair of earphones or earbuds, you can turn in the direction of the sounds that your enemy is making, and then from there you can sort of gauge how far away you have to be to attack a lot of it.

  Shelby Craig (07:59):

  Sometimes it can be strategy based. Obviously when searching for specific objects or Quest goals, it can be a bit more difficult sometimes, especially when you consider the fact that a lot of the objects that you're looking for are hidden. Not everything, but just certain types of objects. So it's gonna naturally be more difficult to access those things. And it, of course, it doesn't really help you when there's enemies trying to attack you at every turn. So it, it definitely took me a while to play it. I definitely wouldn't mind demonstrating that for people if they wanted to see it. Or even if you just wanted to see it. I would, I would love to be able to demonstrate that. But yeah, it's, it's pretty interesting. I was so excited when I figured out that they made World of Warcraft somewhat accessible through the use of an add on.

  Shelby Craig (08:52):

  And I immediately called my brother and I said, you'll never guess what I am installing right now. And I told him and he was just unbelievably excited. He and my sister had actually played World of Warcraft in middle school and now it's, it's really, really awesome just for all three of us, my dad liked to play it as well sometimes. So it's really nice when all four of us are able to sit down and enjoy in a pastime that I haven't been able to participate in when they could. And there's just something really special about that.

  Breyanna Willitt (09:27):

  I remember how special gaming was with my family. You know, I grew up gaming with my dad and you know, my brother and sister were also very into it. So I, I understand how special those moments are when you can share something, you know, especially if it's something that you're all passionate about. That's awesome.

  Shelby Craig (09:44):

  Absolutely. My mom, she always, she always looks at us like, okay, I don't understand anything that any of you are talking about right now. <laugh>. So

  Breyanna Willitt (09:55):

  <laugh>, yeah, I definitely think we've come a long way. I actually just, so I just got a PlayStation five and I was kind of messing around with a couple games and stuff and I had bought Hogwarts legacy and it's super nice because there's a built-in screen reader.

  Shelby Craig (10:12):

  No way, really?

  Breyanna Willitt (10:13):

  I, it completely changed everything for me. I, 'cause I have usual vision, but it's not the greatest, especially when it comes to reading things like menus and stuff. So I'm always, you know, two inches away from the television trying to read things and it completely changed everything. And I'm hoping, you know, as we progress and you know, become more inclusive in everything, that things begin to automatically have that, I guess.

  Shelby Craig (10:43):

  Absolutely.

  Breyanna Willitt (10:44):

  So were you always into gaming?

  Shelby Craig (10:46):

  I really didn't start getting into it until about college. I would say. I did play a, an assortment of audio games when I was in high school, but I didn't really have much time to focus on playing them just because, you know, I, academics and all those, all those other things. But I didn't actually start streaming until I was in college. Actually, this other YouTuber named Liam Irvin, he's another blind gamer. And he actually inspired me to create my own YouTube channel. And it started out as such a small thing because in one of the flight simulators that I was playing, I noticed that there weren't really a whole lot of English tutorials on it. So I thought, how cool would it be if I could sit down and I could make this, the rest, as they say is history. So <laugh>, I've gotten to meet some amazing people through YouTube.

  Shelby Craig (11:45):

  As a matter of fact, one of the developers for a different flight sim that I was playing, I didn't know that he was watching my video at the time, but he had, he had been watching me play and I had come up with a strategy for landing perfectly each time. And then he left a comment and he left a comment on the video later saying, Hey, that's an amazing job that that's a really good strategy. And then he actually updated the game and made it harder to like, of course. So I found a new strategy and showed it off on YouTube. <laugh>, I could never tell he was mad at me about that or not

  Breyanna Willitt (12:23):

  <laugh>. Right. So now everyone playing the game, the reason it's harder is all Shelby's fault. Exactly.

  Shelby Craig (12:29):

  But hey look, Shelby came up with a way to beat it again, so. Right,

  Breyanna Willitt (12:33):

  Exactly. It's really funny, but that's awesome. I'm trying to think of any other questions. Can you think of anything else you wanna talk about?

  Shelby Craig (12:42):

  I guess in addition to accessibility of the games, I would love to see more accessible apps and, and it's worth noting that I would love to see more accessible games across a wide variety of different platforms. And I don't think accessibility should be considered optional. Yes, I always try to do my best to put developers in the position of, okay, there's this really new and exciting and interesting game that just came out, but there's only one caveat. You can't play because you can't see it or hear or whatever the case may be. And that should be the mindset of a developer from the very beginning to incorporate accessibility. Now it's understood that there are going to be parts of games that require more methods of getting around the challenge that you're trying to overcome, because naturally there are things that are, that blind people or people with any disability are going to have trouble with.

  Shelby Craig (13:53):

  The key to implementing good accessibility is to have the people with those disabilities test different features and aspects of the game before you roll it out to the public. Absolutely. That's gonna be the key. It's also worth noting that I would like, I think that, I don't think looking at the online apps that people generally use to stream, there isn't really one that's tailored specifically for the blind people to be able to stream to platforms like YouTube, Twitch, all those other things. Because nobody thought at the time, oh wow, blind people might wanna stream to YouTube. In fact, I remember looking for accessible apps like that, and when I went online to type in apps, like accessible apps for streaming to online platforms, it would like come up with places where you could actually stream videos from different sites, not necessarily posting video. Oh, really?

  Shelby Craig (14:57):

  That's not very helpful. Like I use Open Broadcasting studio right now, but I don't, I don't know. I, I've tried to play around with it a few times and for the most part it does what I want. It works. The only thing is, uh, when trying to display a certain window on screen for my sighted viewers, I can't necessarily tell what's being displayed and where it is on the screen, how big it is. While I'm sure there's a way to adjust the size of the window, it's hard to tell if you're actually, you know, if you're actually showing the viewers what you want them to see. Right. So for example, I wanna display a timer of this, of how long I have left in this round of a game in the upright corner, but I can't tell if there's any window up there, much less what it's showing. So I would love to see an app that was made accessible in the sense of telling you where things are as far as your camera, your windows, that sort of thing. I would love to see more apps tailored toward that, specifically designed with accessibility in in mind.

  Breyanna Willitt (16:10):

  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that goes for all, you know, all apps in general. You know, there's still a lot of apps out there that aren't really accessible, especially for users who use screen readers. Agreed. You know, all you get is button, button button <laugh>. Yep.

  Shelby Craig (16:26):

  And there are plenty of there, there are more inaccessible apps out there than accessible ones, unfortunately.

  Breyanna Willitt (16:34):

  Hopefully, you know, hopefully we get more developers and you know, just testers even for games that are able to, you know, raise the flag of, oh, well this is not accessible even before games are released and everything.

  Shelby Craig (16:51):

  Absolutely. That would be amazing.

  Breyanna Willitt (16:55):

  Awesome. Well, anything else before we wrap up, Shelby?

  Shelby Craig (16:59):

  I can't really think of anything. Do you have any other questions that you want to ask me?

  Breyanna Willitt (17:05):

  I don't think so. It's been great having you back on the show though. Yeah,

  Shelby Craig (17:10):

  I love to. I love, I love to be here. It's,

  Breyanna Willitt (17:13):

  Oh yeah,

  Shelby Craig (17:13):

  I have been able to be a part of it recently. Yeah.

  Breyanna Willitt (17:17):

  Love to bring you back to, you know, talk about your experience moving. Completely states and everything. So we'll have to get you back to talk about them. Absolutely. I'd love to come back. I'm sure that was quite the adventure.

  Shelby Craig (17:27):

  Oh, absolutely.

  Breyanna Willitt (17:28):

  Awesome. And if people wanna check out your YouTube, where can they find you?

  Shelby Craig (17:31):

  So my channel is called AudioGame Extraordinaire. So the word audio game is one word and then the word extraordinaire. I have several different playlists up there. A lot of the titles that I play are titles, which a lot of people probably wouldn't recognize just because most of what I do is audio based.

  Breyanna Willitt (17:54):

  But, you know,

  Shelby Craig (17:54):

  Naturally they wouldn't appear in the mainstream gaming community because not everybody uses audio games.

  Breyanna Willitt (18:01):

  Right. But you are a great resource for, you know, people who are visually impaired, blind, who wanna start gaming, but not really knowing the proper steps. Absolutely. So the channel's great for that.

  Shelby Craig (18:11):

  And I'd be happy to give some advice, and I'm always happy and open to talk with developers about accessibility and, you know, beta, even if it's, I remember one time there was this, there was this game developer who wanted me to beta test a game on his stream, on on my stream, which that was exciting. I, I really enjoyed that. I love beta testing things and showing it off to the public,

  Breyanna Willitt (18:36):

  So, oh yeah. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, <laugh>.

  Shelby Craig (18:41):

  You're very welcome.

  Luisa Recchia (18:43):

  Well, thank you so much for joining us and hope you enjoyed this wonderful episode on gaming. For developers out there, Shelby shared some nuggets, I hope you're listening. A special thank you to our sponsor the Pediatric Retinal Research Foundation, for their unwavering dedication to making a difference in the lives of those affected by retinal diseases. Your support truly makes these stories possible. We encourage all our listeners to stay connected with us and the Foundation to continue learning, sharing, and supporting the cause. Remember, it's through our collective efforts that we can create a brighter, clearer future for children and families impacted by these challenging conditions. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share with your friends and family. Together we can raise awareness, inspire hope, and drive change. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories and groundbreaking research on Through Our Eyes Podcast. Until next time, remember that every voice, every story, and every effort counts. Thank you for being a part of our mission. Goodbye for now.

SHOW NOTES

Shelby Craig’s YouTube Channel: AudioGame Extraordinaire